Oblivion: Vanilla, what would you change?
Elder Scrolls IV - Oblivion
Topics and discussions on modding the popular Elder Scrolls IV Oblivion game produced by Bethesda Softworks.
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Re: Oblivion: Vanilla, what would you change?
by Keylek » February 5th, 2009, 9:51 pm
i would change scenery... i would make new worlds and cities and everything [what i am actually doing with my mod at the moment...]

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Re: Oblivion: Vanilla, what would you change?
by Strange Angel » February 5th, 2009, 10:35 pm
*Caution: contains spoilers possible for Oblivion and Fallout 3*
Not so much quests, but quest outcomes, and choices. This kind of meshes with NPC Interaction, Character Customization, and likely AI. As large as the world of Oblivion is, it's rather monotonous. What it's size does is provides you with the illusion of total freedom, but the game doesn't truly deliver on this point. What if I decide to keep the Amulet of Kings? What if I decide to aid The Mythic Dawn? What if I want to conquer Cyrodiil? As large as the world is the quests, and outcomes are quite linear. I would rather the size of the world be cut in half, even smaller than that, if it meant my characters actions and choices actually impacted that world for better or for worse.
Wouldn't it be neat to raise an army and conquer major cities and wage war on the Empire? Wouldn't it be cool to be appointed to lead a major city in lieu of your heroism (thank you Kvatch Aftermath.) and so forth? A lot of games have tried to pull this kind of thing off, Fable really comes to mind here. However it was poorly executed even in Fable, and Fable 2. Games like Oblivion, and Fable create the illusion of total freedom, but you truly don't have the freedom in that your actions never really significantly impact the world you interact with.
I'll admit Fallout 3 did a much better job than Fable 1 and 2, and totally blew Oblivion away when it came to this kind of thing. From the reactions of Three-Dawg on GNR based on how you handled things, to the actual outcomes. Nuke Megaton, you get a graveyard where it used to be and nice and cozy with Tenpenny. Don't nuke it and Burke sends Talon Company Mercs after you. Yet even with that kind of consequence system Fallout 3 had it was still lacking in this regard. It did a better job than a lot of other games going for this kind of thing, but it was still lacking since you could just pick up and move on with other quests no muss no fuss, and NPC's would act pretty much the same way towards you in most cases. I mean take The Tenpenny Tower quests. Help the Ghouls slaughter all the residents, and no one cares, help the humans slaughter the ghouls, and no one cares in Underworld. Though it was a nice twist with the middle ground choice of getting them to live together only to have Roy wind up massacring all the humans in the long run.
Perhaps this doesn't even fall under quests either? It's more about actions, and consequence. I mean lets say you just up and decide to slaughter everyone in Anvil, assuming you're up to the task. NPC's reactions to you should be total and utter fear. Even the guards hunting you should run away every so often considering your horrible yet remarkable feat. After completing the main quest you should be treated like royalty, and given Kvatch to rule without a mod anyway. You should even get a seat on the Elder Council, or be appointed Head of the Blades, or some sort of Imperial General or something! Your actions good or bad, should really make an impact. The fact they don't always bugged me, which is why I usually fill in the gaps as best I can with mods.
So what I would want to change is kind of big cluster of Quests, NPC Interaction, AI, and Character Customization in terms of the characters personality via their actions.
Not so much quests, but quest outcomes, and choices. This kind of meshes with NPC Interaction, Character Customization, and likely AI. As large as the world of Oblivion is, it's rather monotonous. What it's size does is provides you with the illusion of total freedom, but the game doesn't truly deliver on this point. What if I decide to keep the Amulet of Kings? What if I decide to aid The Mythic Dawn? What if I want to conquer Cyrodiil? As large as the world is the quests, and outcomes are quite linear. I would rather the size of the world be cut in half, even smaller than that, if it meant my characters actions and choices actually impacted that world for better or for worse.
Wouldn't it be neat to raise an army and conquer major cities and wage war on the Empire? Wouldn't it be cool to be appointed to lead a major city in lieu of your heroism (thank you Kvatch Aftermath.) and so forth? A lot of games have tried to pull this kind of thing off, Fable really comes to mind here. However it was poorly executed even in Fable, and Fable 2. Games like Oblivion, and Fable create the illusion of total freedom, but you truly don't have the freedom in that your actions never really significantly impact the world you interact with.
I'll admit Fallout 3 did a much better job than Fable 1 and 2, and totally blew Oblivion away when it came to this kind of thing. From the reactions of Three-Dawg on GNR based on how you handled things, to the actual outcomes. Nuke Megaton, you get a graveyard where it used to be and nice and cozy with Tenpenny. Don't nuke it and Burke sends Talon Company Mercs after you. Yet even with that kind of consequence system Fallout 3 had it was still lacking in this regard. It did a better job than a lot of other games going for this kind of thing, but it was still lacking since you could just pick up and move on with other quests no muss no fuss, and NPC's would act pretty much the same way towards you in most cases. I mean take The Tenpenny Tower quests. Help the Ghouls slaughter all the residents, and no one cares, help the humans slaughter the ghouls, and no one cares in Underworld. Though it was a nice twist with the middle ground choice of getting them to live together only to have Roy wind up massacring all the humans in the long run.
Perhaps this doesn't even fall under quests either? It's more about actions, and consequence. I mean lets say you just up and decide to slaughter everyone in Anvil, assuming you're up to the task. NPC's reactions to you should be total and utter fear. Even the guards hunting you should run away every so often considering your horrible yet remarkable feat. After completing the main quest you should be treated like royalty, and given Kvatch to rule without a mod anyway. You should even get a seat on the Elder Council, or be appointed Head of the Blades, or some sort of Imperial General or something! Your actions good or bad, should really make an impact. The fact they don't always bugged me, which is why I usually fill in the gaps as best I can with mods.
So what I would want to change is kind of big cluster of Quests, NPC Interaction, AI, and Character Customization in terms of the characters personality via their actions.
"The truth is lived, not taught." ~ Hermann Hesse

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Re: Oblivion: Vanilla, what would you change?
by Dark Lilith » February 5th, 2009, 11:28 pm
some very interesting replies Strange angel, I like the detail you put into your reply.

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Re: Oblivion: Vanilla, what would you change?
by Darwin Machiavelli » February 11th, 2009, 9:35 pm
Personally (if I had the skills of course), I would first and foremost improve on Oblivion's graphics. Sure they are pretty good and colorful to begin with, but today they're kind of aged. Of course, that's why we've got mods out there that are meant solely to improve graphics.
Second, I would consider improving NPC interaction. At first Oblivions character interactions and speech sounds great and varied, eventually it begins to get monotonous as everything is eventually repeated for the one-thousandth time that playthrough (and one-millionth time overall). Bethsoft, IMO, didn't add enough lines of random dialogue for the NPC's and they tend to be on similar subjects (all they talk about in the mid-game is the Oblivion Gates).
Sure it may complement the story, but no one likes listening to a broken record. How about a few more comments about what's going on it town? Plus, some of the voices in the game sound really fake (like the one Redguard woman outside Kvatch who says in the most carefree voice, "Everybody ran, or they died! I don't know how the fire started, but it burned Kvatch to the ground!")
And don't even get me started on their ridiculous hand gestures. They are even worse than the sound of a broken record!
Sorry, don't mean to get off the ball everyone. Just, Oblivion's issues are annoying after a while. Still, with great graphics, I forget everything, so that's why I'd have them changed first. While one can mostly avoid the city NPC's if you hang out in the wilderness, you can never escape the graphics.
Second, I would consider improving NPC interaction. At first Oblivions character interactions and speech sounds great and varied, eventually it begins to get monotonous as everything is eventually repeated for the one-thousandth time that playthrough (and one-millionth time overall). Bethsoft, IMO, didn't add enough lines of random dialogue for the NPC's and they tend to be on similar subjects (all they talk about in the mid-game is the Oblivion Gates).
Sure it may complement the story, but no one likes listening to a broken record. How about a few more comments about what's going on it town? Plus, some of the voices in the game sound really fake (like the one Redguard woman outside Kvatch who says in the most carefree voice, "Everybody ran, or they died! I don't know how the fire started, but it burned Kvatch to the ground!")
And don't even get me started on their ridiculous hand gestures. They are even worse than the sound of a broken record!
Sorry, don't mean to get off the ball everyone. Just, Oblivion's issues are annoying after a while. Still, with great graphics, I forget everything, so that's why I'd have them changed first. While one can mostly avoid the city NPC's if you hang out in the wilderness, you can never escape the graphics.
Typical video game translations:
¡Te quiero ver... con una bala en tu cabeza!
Je veux te voir... avec une balle dans ta tête!
I want to see you… with a bullet in your head!
(~I was bored and made this~)

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Re: Oblivion: Vanilla, what would you change?
by Pushkatu » March 2nd, 2009, 1:48 pm
If I had to pick just one change, then it must be "the incredible AI" as they named it. Bleach... 


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